52 Ancestors: #43(2) Elizabeth’s parents Robert and Anne CARROLL

52 Ancestors in 52 Weeks“The challenge: have one blog post each week devoted to a specific ancestor. It could be a story, a biography, a photograph, an outline of a research problem — anything that focuses on one ancestor.”

This is entry #43(2) in Amy Johnson Crow’s Challenge: 52 Ancestors in 52 Weeks.

I might be breaking a rule by doing this ancestor in two parts in one week. My posts for this challenge are not spontaneous. I have this planned out to the end of the year. For me, an ancestor’s childhood and parents are part of her life. In the case of this ancestor it became so complicated that I’ve broken this up into two parts.

52 Ancestors: #43(2) Elizabeth’s parents Robert and Anne CARROLL

I thought this would be an easy write-up until I started taking a closer look at what I have on the CARROLL family of Montgomery County, Virginia. To begin with the name was found with many different spellings: CARL, CAREL, CARLE, CAROL, CARRIL, CARREL, CARRELL, CARROLL.

To add to the confusion the George Valentine “Feltha” CORRELL family moved to the area soon after the 1810 census from Augusta County. They were of German heritage and the surname was sometimes spelled CARRELL. Fortunately, I’ve already looked into this family as Feltha’s wife Kate was a WEAVER, daughter of George WEAVER and Barbara RUPP (sister of my Henry RUPE), and granddaughter of my 1752 immigrants (6th great-grandparents) Johan Jacob RUPP and Maria Barbara NONNENMACHER.

CARROLL Marriages

According to family tradition three of Henry RUPE’s sons married CARROLL sisters. Let’s take a look at the CARROLL marriages that took place in Montgomery and Floyd counties from 1830 to 1850:

1. My fourth great-grandparents James ROOP and Elizabeth CARROLL married on 23 July 1830. In the abstract of the marriage[1] his last name was spelled RUPE and her maiden name was indexed as EARL. As mentioned last week RUPE and ROOP were used  interchangeably. The names of the bride’s and groom’s parents were not included in the transcript. To-do list: request copy of marriage record because….I believe that EARL is an indexing error and her maiden name was most likely spelled CARL as it was for her sister Mary the following year:

2. “I do hereby certify that I celebrated the rites of matrimony between Joseph Roop & Mary Carl of Montgomery Cty on the 13th day of September 1831 by virtue of a publication given under my hand this 26th day of June 1832. Richd Buckingham”[2]

3. Richard Buckingham also celebrated the rites of matrimony between John CARL and Theodocia WILSON of Floyd County on the 27th day of November 1832 by virtue of a publication.[3] John died on 1 October 1881 in Floyd County. The abstract of his record of death shows his name as John CARRIL and his parents as Robert and Anne.[4]

4. Peninah CARROLL married Henry KEMPLIN on 26 November 1835 in Floyd County, Virginia. The marriage was performed by Michael Howry. Parents of the couple were not listed on this source.[3] This couple went to Kentucky before 1840.

5. Nancy Carroll married Andrew DAME on 5 September 1844 in Montgomery County, Virginia.[5] No information found on this couple.

6. On 4 November 1846 William ROOP gave bond with Robert CARRELL as security for the marriage of William to Robert’s daughter Catherine CARRELL.[6] In 1850 Anne CARLE age 62 was in the household of William and Catherine ROOP. The relationship is not listed however Anne would appear to be Catherine’s mother.

7. Rose CARROLL married James JUSTICE on 21 October 1848. The abstract of this record includes the name of the bride’s father, Robert CARROLL.[6] At this point things become complicated. Rose may have had two daughters before this marriage. Sarah CARROLL who is seen with her in 1850 and Drusilla CARROLL. The second daughter later took the surname JUSTICE. Sallie/Sarah RATLIFF was seen as Drusilla’s grandmother in 1880 suggesting that Rose’s children’s father was a RATLIFF. Sarah CARROLL was also found with Sarah RATLIFF in 1850 and with Robert CARROLL in 1860. Like her sister Drusilla, Sarah CARROLL appears to have had a child without marrying and is seen in 1880 as Sarah JUSTIS.

8. Joseph R. CARRELL and Sarah KROPFF were married by Thomas G. Shelor on 6 August 1846 in Floyd County, Virginia . Sarah was the daughter of Barbary KROPFF per permission note. Parents of the groom were not mentioned.[3]

9. Robert R. CARRELL and Evaline M. RATLIFF were married by Owen Sumner on 9 July 1848 in Floyd County, Virginia. Evaline was the daughter of Benjamin RATLIFF per bond. Parents of the groom were not mentioned.[3]

From family tradition and the above marriages that list a parent, the following children are Robert’s: *Elizabeth, *Mary, *John, *Catherine, and *Rose. This leaves Peninah, Nancy, Joseph and Robert as possible children.

CARROLL in Census

The Robert CARROLL family was NOT always the only family of that name in Montgomery County per the earliest censuses. In 1810 there was also a Samuel CARREL Sr. age over 45 and in 1820 a James CARRELL age 26-44. Samuel was not on the 1820 census and James was not found in Montgomery in 1830 or later. After this time, in 1830, Robert was the only CARROLL in Montgomery County. Robert and his son John were the only CARROLLs in Floyd County in 1840. Note that Floyd County was formed from Montgomery in 1831.

Since Robert was the only CARROLL in Montgomery County after 1820 I believe that it is possible that 8 of the 9 (if not all) marriages found above may be his children. Using these young people (*proven) I analyzed the pre-1850 census:

1810censuscarrel
1810 U.S. Federal Census > VA > Montgomery > Christiansburg (ancestry.com)

1810 U.S. Federal Census
Montgomery County, Virginia
Christiansburg
Name: Robt Carrel
Free White Persons – Males – Under 10: 1 (*John)
Free White Persons – Males – 26 thru 44 : 1 (Robert 26-29)
Free White Persons – Females – Under 10: 2 (*Elizabeth and *Mary)
Free White Persons – Females – 10 thru 15: 1 (unknown b. bet. 1795-1800)
Free White Persons – Females – 26 thru 44: 1 (Anne 26-29)
Number of Household Members Under 16: 4
Number of Household Members Over 25: 2
Number of Household Members: 6

1820censuscarrell
1820 U.S. Federal Census > VA > Montgomery > Blacksburg (ancestry.com)

1820 U.S. Federal Census
Montgomery County, Virginia
Blacksburg
Name: Robert Carrell
Enumeration Date: August 7, 1820
Free White Persons – Males – Under 10: 1 (*John, wrong column?)
Free White Persons – Males – 26 thru 44: 1 (Robert age 36-39)
Free White Persons – Females – Under 10: 4 (*Mary, *Rose, Peninah, *Catherine)
Free White Persons – Females – 10 thru 15: 1 (*Elizabeth)
Free White Persons – Females – 26 thru 44: 1 (Anne age 36-39)
Number of Persons – Engaged in Agriculture: 1
Free White Persons – Under 16: 6
Free White Persons – Over 25: 2
Total Free White Persons: 8
Total All Persons – White, Slaves, Colored, Other: 8

1830censuscarle
1830 U.S. Federal Census > VA > Montgomery > Christiansburg (ancestry.com)

1830 U.S. Federal Census
Montgomery County, Virginia
Christiansburg
Name: Robert Carle
Free White Persons – Males – Under 5: 1 (Robert)
Free White Persons – Males – 5 thru 9: 1 (Joseph)
Free White Persons – Males – 20 thru 29: 1 (*John)
Free White Persons – Males – 40 thru 49: 1 (Robert age 46-49)
Free White Persons – Females – Under 5: 1 (Nancy)
Free White Persons – Females – 5 thru 9: 1 (*Catherine)
Free White Persons – Females – 10 thru 14: 2 (*Rose, Peninah)
Free White Persons – Females – 40 thru 49: 1 (Anne age 46-49)
Free White Persons – Females – 50 thru 59: 1 (older woman?)
Free White Persons – Under 20: 6
Free White Persons – 20 thru 49: 3
Total Free White Persons: 10
Total – All Persons (Free White, Slaves, Free Colored): 10

Up until 1830 the analysis of the census went well except for son John (b. abt. 1806) having slipped into the wrong column in 1820. The children fit the CARROLL marriages seen above. Then the 1840 blows everything out of the water.

1840censuscarel
1840 U.S. Federal Census > VA > Floyd (ancestry.com)

1840 U.S. Federal Census
Floyd County, Virginia
Name: Robert Carol
Free White Persons – Males – 5 thru 9: 1 (??)
Free White Persons – Males – 10 thru 14: 2 (Joseph and Robert)
Free White Persons – Males – 50 thru 59: 1 (Robert age 56-59)
Free White Persons – Females – Under 5: 1 (Rose’s dau Sarah)
Free White Persons – Females – 10 thru 14: 5 (Nancy, 4x??)
Free White Persons – Females – 15 thru 19: 1 (*Rose, *Catherine)
Free White Persons – Females – 30 thru 39: 1 (poss. mother of younger children)
Free White Persons – Females – 50 thru 59: 1 (Anne age 56-59)
Persons Employed in Agriculture: 2
Persons Employed in Manufacture and Trade: 1
Free White Persons – Under 20: 10
Free White Persons – 20 thru 49: 1
Total Free White Persons: 13
Total All Persons – Free White, Free Colored, Slaves: 13

Robert and Anne are with their unmarried children but there is another young woman with them and it looks like she may have brought five children with her. Could she be the girl age 10-15 seen with the CARROLL family in 1810? Was she Robert’s sister? Was she the mother of all the younger children?

1850censuscarle
1850 U.S. Federal Census > VA > Montgomery (ancestry.com)

In 1850 Robert CARROLL was not found in the census. However Anne CARLE age 62 was in the household of her son-in-law William ROOP (above) and her daughter Catherine. Eight of the nine CARROLL children were found in their own households. As mentioned earlier, no record was found for Nancy who married Andrew DAME.

In 1860 we find Robert CARROLL age 74 in the census with young people who may be grandchildren.

1860censuscarrell1
1860 U.S. Federal Census > VA > Montgomery > Christiansburg (ancestry.com)
1860censuscarrell2
1860 U.S. Federal Census > VA > Montgomery > Christiansburg (ancestry.com)

1860 U.S. Federal Census
Montgomery County, Virginia
Christiansburg
Robert Carroll 74 wheelright
Robert Carroll 22 laborer (1850 age 22)
Sarah Carroll 21 (1850 age 14/15, poss. a daughter of Rose)
Elisha Carroll 14 (1850 age 0, son of Ruth Ratliff Rose)
Isaac Rose 35 basket maker
Ruth Rose 20 (1850 age 22, daughter of Sarah Ratliff)
Malinda Rose 7
Druscilla Rose 1
Note: ages of persons in household are off by 5-10 years

The young Robert seen in this household may be his son but the age is off by 10 years. A Robert CARROLL age 12 was not found in the 1850 census. In 1850 Robert’s son Robert R. CARROLL was in prison and the wife Evaline had her own household with their son Jesse. She has not been located in 1860 but in 1868 she was a widow and remarried. She had her last child about 1862 and he was named Giles Gordon CARROLL.

Sarah CARROLL seen in Robert’s household in 1860 was found twice in 1850, in the household of Rose Carroll JUSTICE and in the household of Sarah RATLIFF.

Elisha CARROLL was the son of Ruth CARROLL (aka Ruth RATLIFF) per his marriage record. Ruth, wife of Isaac ROSE, was listed as Ruth RATLIFF, daughter of Sarah RATLIFF, when she married in 1853. Ruth and Isaac have not been found after 1860. Why would Ruth’s son Elisha have the CARROLL surname if his mother was a RATLIFF? Could it be that Ruth’s mother Sarah RATLIFF was actually a CARROLL as she is seen in 1870? Is Sarah the young girl seen in Robert’s household in 1810 and then again in 1840. Could she be Robert’s sister?

Sarah RATLIFF in Census

1850 U.S. Federal Census
Montgomery County, Virginia
Sarah Ratliff F 55 Virginia
Ruth Carroll F 22 Virginia (daughter of Sarah per marriage record)
Sarah Carroll F 14 Virginia (daughter of Rose?)
Drusilla Carroll F 10 Virginia (daughter of Rose per 1880)
Elijah Carroll M 0 Virginia (son of Ruth per marriage record)
Lucinda Norris F 30 Virginia (relationship unknown)
Julia A. Norris F 10 Virginia (relationship unknown)
Harvey Norris M 2 Virginia (relationship unknown)

1860 U.S. Federal Census
Sarah Ratliff aka Sarah Carroll was not found.

1870 U.S. Federal Census
Montgomery County, Virginia
Christiansburg
Justice, Rose M. 46
Justice, Drucilla 26 (daughter of Rose per 1880)
Justice, Ellen 11 (daughter of Drusilla per 1900, 1910, 1920, 1930)
Carroll, Sallie 84 (aka Sarah Ratliff)
Rose, Amanda 3 (poss. daughter of Ruth and Isaac Rose who disappeared aft. 1860)

1880 U.S. Federal Census
Montgomery County, Virginia
Auburn
Justis, Drucilla 37 single (died bet. 1930-1940)
Justis, Rosa M. 63 widowed mother (died bet. 1880-1900)
Ratliff, Sallie 90 widowed grandmother (died bet. 1880-1900)

Wrinkle in my timeline

The 1880 census listing for Sallie RATLIFF threw me. I thought at first glance that “Sallie” was the mother of “Rosa” but this would put a wrinkle in my timeline for the Robert CARROLL family and add complications.

I’ve spent hours going back and forth with this information. My problem is a riddle: If Rose CARROLL was the daughter of Robert CARROLL and Sarah RATLIFF was the grandmother of Rose’s daughter Drusilla CARROLL aka Drusilla JUSTICE, then either Sarah was the mother of Rose or she was the mother of Drusilla’s unknown father. I would much rather think that she was not Drusilla’s mother as this would mean that Robert and Sarah (who was not his wife) had a child together.

Can I trust the census records that show these people using one surname and then changing to another without marrying? Can you see my predicament? I hope that by putting all the information into this post someone will see it and hopefully have the answers. I may have to take Diane Gould Hall’s advice and get images of the marriage records in hopes of finding more information than is transcribed.

Bottom Line

The bottom line is that Robert and Anne CARROLL were the parents of John, Elizabeth, Mary, Rose and Catherine and they may have had four more children. Speculation on my part is that Peninah, Nancy, Joseph and Robert were these four children.

Wouldn’t it be wonderful to be able to go back in time and talk to Mary ROOP, the daughter of Robert and Anne CARROLL, who lived to be 100 years old and could vividly tell of events that happened when she was young?

Mrs. Mary Roop, last living child of Robert and Anne CARROLL d. 1909

1907article
The Times Dispatch. (Richmond, Va.), 09 Jan. 1909. Chronicling America: Historic American Newspapers. Lib. of Congress.

Mrs. Mary Roop, of Auburn, in this county, has been quite ill for several days, but her friends have strong hopes of her recovery, although she is quite advanced in years, having celebrated her ninety-eighth birthday on New Year’s Day. She was born on the first day of January, 1809, a few miles from her present residence, and so far as is known she is the oldest person in the county. Her husband, the late Joseph Roop, died of a cancer in 1876, and she has lived with her youngest daughter at the old home place ever since. She can tell of events which happened ninety years ago as vividly as if she were speaking of things which took place only a year ago, and her memory is the wonder of the community.
All five of her sons fought in the late Civil War, one of whom lost his life in the service and the other four are still living in the county,as are three daughters, the youngest having died one years ago. She has a large number of grandchildren, great-grandchildren, and some half a dozen great-great-grandchildren, in all the greatest number of descendants of any living person in this county.[8]

1909obit
The Times Dispatch. (Richmond, Va.), 13 Jan. 1907. Chronicling America: Historic American Newspapers. Lib. of Congress.

Mrs. Mary Roop [Special to The Times-Dispatch.]
Christiansburg, VA., January 8. – Mrs. Mary Roop died at her residence, near Riner, in Montgomery county, yesterday after an illness of several months, aged 100 years and six days, being the oldest person in this county. She was born within a few miles of Riner on the first day of January, 1809. She was a remarkable woman, having never suffered any illness of consequence until a short time ago, and was clear in mind and memory until a few days before her death.
Her husband, the late Joseph Roop, died in 1876, and she continued to live at the old Homestead until her death, refusing to leave to live with any of her children, although often urged to do so. She leaves three sons and three daughters living, three of her children having died, the oldest living child now being nearly eighty years old. She also leaves over 100 descendants, embracing six generations. R. I. Roop, of this place, is one of her grandsons. The burial took place to-day at the family burying ground, near her home.[9]

If you missed the first part you can find it here.

Sources:
[1] Ancestry.com. Virginia, Marriages, 1740-1850 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations Inc, 1999. Original data: Dodd, Jordan R., et al.. Early American Marriages: Virginia to 1850. Bountiful, UT, USA: Precision Indexing Publishers.
[2] Louise Roop Anderson Akers, comp., The Family Rub, Rup, Rupe, Roop, Roope (2001 Printed by Jamont Communications, 339 Luck Ave., Roanoke, VA 24016). Photocopy of page with marriages by Richard Buckingham.
[3] Floyd County, Virginia, Marriages 1831-1900; transcribed by Barbara Reininger from images copied from microfilm by Rena Worthen; online http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~barbr/zz_marriages.htm.
[4] Ancestry.com. Virginia, Deaths and Burials Index, 1853-1917 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2011. Original data: “Virginia Deaths and Burials, 1853–1912.” Index. FamilySearch, Salt Lake City, Utah, 2010. Index entries derived from digital copies of original and compiled records.
[5] Ancestry.com. Virginia, Select Marriages, 1785-1940 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc, 2014. Original data: Virginia, Marriages, 1785-1940. Salt Lake City, Utah: FamilySearch, 2013. FHL Film Number: 32633. Reference ID: P 289
[6] Louise Roop Anderson Akers, comp., The Family Rub, Rup, Rupe, Roop, Roope (2001 Printed by Jamont Communications, 339 Luck Ave., Roanoke, VA 24016). Photocopy of marriage bond of William Roop and Catherine Carrell.
[7] “Virginia, Marriages, 1785-1940,” index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XR8J-69S : accessed 21 Oct 2014), James Justice and Rose Carroll, 21 Oct 1848; citing Montgomery County, Virginia, reference P 308; FHL microfilm 32633.
[8] The times dispatch. (Richmond, Va.), 13 Jan. 1907. Chronicling America: Historic American Newspapers. Lib. of Congress.  (http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn85038615/1907-01-13/ed-1/seq-18/ : accessed 2014)
[9] The times dispatch. (Richmond, Va.), 09 Jan. 1909. Chronicling America: Historic American Newspapers. Lib. of Congress. (http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn85038615/1909-01-09/ed-1/seq-2/ : accessed 2014)

© 2014 Cathy Meder-Dempsey

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Author: Cathy Meder-Dempsey

As a military brat I've lived in Georgia, France, Idaho, West Virginia, Spain, South Carolina, Texas, and Luxembourg. Married 36 years with two grown children. When I’m not doing genealogy, I spend time riding my racing bike with my husband through the wonderful countryside in Luxembourg and surrounding countries.

4 thoughts on “52 Ancestors: #43(2) Elizabeth’s parents Robert and Anne CARROLL”

  1. Thank you for all of your hard work! My great grandfather was Howard fisher. Son of Kate and Harvey cattern fisher. I noticed you didn’t have any info about his wife or children. If you would like it let me know. I am amazed at how much you have found so far!

    Like

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