Update: Another Door Opens in the KREMER-WINANDY Brick Wall

This morning I had a Message Request on Facebook from Linda. Her message helped me open another door in the KREMER-WINANDY brick wall. This isn’t the first time she’s helped me out. She’s the lady who inspired me to write A Latin Rule You May Not Have Known.

1793 Marriage Index Card for CREMERS and VINANDI.

In my 52 Ancestors: #16 A Door Opens in the KREMER-WINANDY Brick Wall post yesterday I wrote about how my excitement dwindled as I read through the actual entry in the parish register for the marriage event of Wilhelmus CREMERS and Maria Magdalena VENANDY in Fouhren. The marriage record I found didn’t have the names of the parents of the groom and I did not know where the names seen on the marriage index card (above) came from.

Linda found the another copy of the marriage record in Fouhren in which Wilhelmus CREMERS’ parents’ names were included.

“Luxembourg registres paroissiaux, 1601-1948,” images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-99WS-9Q44?cc=2037955&wc=STHZ-BZ4%3A1500942601%2C1500942602 : 9 January 2015), Fouhren > image 130 of 141; paroisses, Luxembourg (parishes, Luxembourg).

May I introduce you to my children’s 6th great-grandparents Henri and Magdalena CREMERS of Arzfeld, parents of Wilhelm CREMERS aka Wilhem KREMER (ca. 1762-1814).

A Lesson Learned

While working with the parish records on FamilySearch I’ve noticed some records are included twice – having been kept in a kind of double accounting system. I should have thought of this when I noticed the parents of the groom’s names were missing.

Linda once again taught me a lesson. When working with FamilySearch collections, check the catalog and pay attention to the year range given for each batch. There may be more than one copy of the record and they may not be identical.


© 2017, copyright Cathy Meder-Dempsey. All rights reserved.

52 Ancestors: #16 A Door Opens in the KREMER-WINANDY Brick Wall

Before I begin writing my 52 Ancestors posts, I review the information I have, revise notes, check for missing information, and add or fix source citations. The process has twofold results. I’m getting my stories written and my database is being cleaned up at the same time.

For the family group featured this week, I had the baptismal record for one daughter, marriage records for the daughter and three sons, and death records for the mother and five known children. I was stuck and thought I would end up doing only a short recap of the information I already shared in my post 52 Ancestors: #34 KREMER-FRIEDERICH Family – Using Substitutes to Tell Their Story.

But the parents and siblings of Nicolas KREMER (1797-1867), my children’s 4th great-grandfather, still deserved a few hours of research.

A Key to Open the Door in this Brick Wall

Let me introduce you to Joseph CREMERS who had the key in his baptismal record[1] which led to my finding the missing information.

12 December 1798 Baptismal Record of Joseph CREMERS.[1]
Today the 23rd day of the month Frimaire in the 7th year of the French Republic at 9 o’clock in the morning came before me, Pierre Peters, agent of the commune of Hosingen … Wilhelm CREMERS, herder, resident of Wahlhausen, assisted by Jacob Meyers and Peter Theis, both of age and residents of Wahlhausen, and declared that Magdelene VENANDY, a native of Fouhren in the canton of Vianden and his legal wife gave birth yesterday the 22nd day of the present month at [illegible] o’clock in the evening at his home in Wahlhausen, a male child who he presented and gave the name Joseph, …. the citizens Jacob Meyers and Peter Theis confirmed this was true …. they signed in the presence of the agent and the father declared not being able to write.[1] (a rough translation)

The Wall Came Tumbling Down

Joseph’s baptismal record led to my searching the church records of Fouhren for the baptismal record of the mother who was a native of the town. Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately), I had no idea how old the mother was and soon became frustrated with viewing the old script. I asked myself, “If she was a native of the town, did she marry there?”

I checked the marriage index cards and found the marriage of Wilhelmus CREMERS and Maria Magdalena VENANDY in Fouhren.[2]

1793 Marriage Index Card for CREMERS and VINANDI.[2]
I was ecstatic when I found this card with the names of the bride and groom as well as their parents’ names. My excitement dwindled as I read through the actually entry in the parish records for the marriage event.[3]

1793 Marriage Record for Wilhelmus CREMERS and Maria Magdalena VENANDI.[3]
On the 3rd of June 1793 after proclamation in the church parishes of Fouhren and Stolzembourg and, there being no impediment to the marriage, were joined in marriage of mutual consent Wilhelmus CREMERS of Arsfeld, a parishioner of Stolzembourg, and Maria Magdalena VENANDI, daughter of Joannes VENANDI and Maria HOSINGER of Stolzembourg who attend the Walsdorff parish of Fouhren and have their fixed domicile in Stolzembourg. Witnesses were Joannes Urhausen, a married man of Stolzembourg, and Joannes Lentz, a widower from Walsdorff. The bride and groom signed with their mark and the witnesses with their names.[3] (a rough translation)

The marriage record brought to light two things. First, the parents of the groom were not mentioned on the record. Did the person who typed up this index card “know” the names of the parents or did he misread the record as it is on the bottom of one page and top of the next? Second, the couple had a reason for marrying. Since the until now earliest record for this couple was the birth of their daughter Eva on 10 September 1793, we can imagine the reason they were married on 3 June 1793.

And Then I Found More Children

With the discovery of the son Joseph and the marriage record, I searched again for other children born in Hosingen and Weiler area, where previously found children were born. From Joseph’s baptismal record I knew Wilhelm was a herder and the family may have wandered around. I found two more baptismal records and two death records. Two sons were discovered in the GEDCOM file of a Luxracines member on my genealogy society’s site however I was not able to find the records to support the dates and places. After sending him a query, Rob Deltgen pointed me in the right direction. Using his tip I found three of the four missing birth records and three death records. I now have all marriages and deaths for the family documented as well as the births of seven of the nine children. For the two missing birth records I have marriage records, secondary evidence of the births.


Wilhelm CREMERS married Maria Magdalena VENANDI on 3 June 1793 in Fouhren. Madelaine, as she would be known in later years, was the daughter of Joannes VENANDI and Maria HOSINGER of Stolzembourg.[3]

1793 Baptismal Record of Eva KRIEMER. [4]
Three months later at 9 o’clock in the morning of Tuesday, 10 September 1793 Maria Magdalena VENANDI gave birth to her first child. The father Wilhelmi KRIEMER reported the birth of the female child who was baptized the same day and named Eva. Her godmother was Eva VENANDI of Stolzembourg and her godfather was Joannes SCHNEIDERS of Putscheid.[4] [The godparents have been tagged for future research.]

The second known child of Madelaine and Wilhelm was their son Nicolas KREMER (1797-1867) born in Hosingen on 1 March 1797. The birth and/or baptism of this child was not found as records for the years 1794-1797 appear to be missing for Hosingen. The date and place of birth were found on his 1830 marriage record.[5]

On Wednesday the 22nd day of the month of Frimaire in the 8th year of the French Republic (13 December 1798) Madelaine gave birth to Joseph CREMERS (1798-1822) in Wahlhausen. The father Wilhelm’s occupation at the time was herder or pâtre. The birth record was a civil record, not a church record, and did not include names of godparents.[1]

Marguerite CREMERS (1801-1803) was born at 4 o’clock in the morning on the 9th day of the month Floreal in the 9th year of the French Republic or 29 April 1801 in Wahlhausen. Two farmers from the town were witnesses and the father declared not being able to write.[6] Marguerite died at the age of 23 months on the 13th day of Pluviose in the 11th year or 2 February 1803 in Wahlhausen. At the time of her death the father Wilhelm was working as a day laborer or journalier.[7]

Madelaine likely conceived shortly after her daughter Marguerite died. Marie CREMERS (1803-1840) was born at 8 in the evening of the 20th day of Brumaire year 12 or 12 November 1803 in Wahlhausen. Her birth was recorded in the commune of Hosingen and witnessed by two farmers from that town.[8]

The sixth child of Wilhelm and Madelaine was born at 5 in the morning on 26 April 1806 in Nachtmanderscheid. Mathias was the name his 40 years old father, a herdman or bouvier gave him.[9]

A son named Paul was born on 30 May 1808 in Weiler. The record found to document the birth of Paul KREMER (1808-1859) was his 1830 marriage record.[10]

On 20 February 1811 at 8 in the morning another son born in Weiler was given the name Mathieu, the French version of Mathias, even though the first son with this name was still living. His father was listed as a 46 years old cowherd or Kühhirt.[11] Did the parents make a mistake when naming their son or did they know one or both would not survive the year?

On 14 October 1811 the elder Mathias died in Weiler.[12] His baby brother, also named Mathias died on 27 December 1811, also in Weiler.[13] The family was reduced to two daughters and three sons.

Two years later the last child of Wilhelm and Madelaine was born in 9 November 1813 in Weiler.[14] The father, a 50 years old cowherd, declared his son Jacob was born at 8 in the evening to his wife.

On 29 January 1814 at 9 o’clock in the morning Madelaine and a neighbor went to the commune of Landscheid to declare the death of her husband Wilhelm KREMER who died the previous day in Weiler in the Hintner Haus. Madelaine, who could not write, left her mark on the death record. Her age was given as 42 years (b. abt. 1772).[15]

The mother of two daughters and four sons between the ages of 20 years and less than 3 months may have tried to keep the family together for the next 8 years. Her second oldest son Joseph was in his early twenties when he died at 6 o’clock in the morning on 20 February 1822 in Wahlhausen in a house called Schneiders. His mother and a farmer named Theodor SCHNEIDERS reported his death. Joseph had been working as a day laborer, likely in service with the farmer.[16] [Further research is planned as the eldest daughter Eva’s godfather was also a SCHNEIDERS, i.e. a possible relation to the KREMER, WINANDY, or HOSINGER families?]

Eva KREMER married Nicolas DIFFERDING (1792-1869) on 15 October 1822 in Landscheid.[17] In retrospect, the location of her marriage should have lead me to the records of her missing siblings. Records for Weiler and Nachmanderscheid for the period the siblings were born and died were kept in Landscheid and found in the Bastendorf collection.

Following Joseph’s death and Eva’s marriage things were quiet until 1830. The oldest son Nicolas had moved to Bettendorf sometime prior to his marriage on 17 February 1830 to Elisabeth FRIEDERICH (1802-1871). His mother came to Bettendorf for the marriage from Eisenbach where she was living at the time.[5]

A little more than a month later Nicolas’ brother Paul who was living in Hosingen married Marie DIEDERICH on 27 March 1830 in Bettendorf. His mother Madelaine was living in Merscheid but came to Bettendorf for the marriage.[10]

Madelaine may have taken ill soon after the wedding or planned on staying in Bettendorf as she did not go back home to Merscheid. Four days later on 31 March 1830 at 7 o’clock in the morning she died in the house of Christian DIEDERICH, Paul KREMER’s father-in-law. Christian DIEDERICH was the informant on her death record and listed as her neighbor. The age given on the death record was 74 years (b. abt. 1756).[18] She was more likely about 58 years old. The only record with an age for her was the death record of her husband Wilhelm in 1814 when she was listed as 42 years old. Another discrepancy on her death record was her place of birth which was listed as Bettendorf, the town she died in. No birth or baptismal record was found for Madelaine however her marriage record indicates she may have been from Stolzembourg or according the baptismal record of her son Joseph she was a native of Fouhren.

Five years after the marriages of Nicolas and Paul and the death of their mother, their youngest brother Jacques was marrying Cathérine KORB (1813-1895) on 27 February 1835 in Bettendorf. Jacques was living in Weiler at the time and Cathérine was from Bettendorf.[19] They made their home in Bettendorf after the marriage.

The marriage record of Jacques KREMER erroneously listed his mother’s death as taking place on 30 March 1814 in Weiler instead of in 1830 in Bettendorf. Marriage records in Luxembourg are full of important genealogical information however the primary source is needed to substantiate the information which is only secondary evidence. It took me a while to learn this lesson in the early years of my genealogical research as I relied heavily on marriage records.

After the marriage of the youngest KREMER only the oldest daughter Eva was not living in Bettendorf. She lived and raised her family in Gralingen. Her three married brothers Nicolas, Paul, and Jacques were raising their families in Bettendorf where their sister Marie also lived. At the time of Marie’s death she was living in the home Christian DIEDERICH and did not work. She died on 12 May 1840 at the age of 36 years (the death record indicates 39) and her death was reported by her oldest brother Nicolas.[20]

Eight years later the youngest of the KREMER siblings, Jacques, died on 23 July 1848 in Bettendorf. His death was reported by his father-in-law.[21] Jacques who was only 34 when he died, had lived with his wife and children in the home of his father-in-law. His wife Cathérine outlived him by 47 years.

NIne years after Jacques’ death the now youngest living sibling, Paul KREMER died on 9 March 1859 in Bettendorf. His son-in-law Johann THEIS reported his death and did not know the names of the deceased parents. Paul’s age on the record was 52 years although he was only 50.[22]

From 1859 until 1867 the only living children of Wilhelm and Madelaine were their two oldest children Eva and Nicolas. On 8 February 1867 Nicolas KREMER died in Bettendorf at the age of 69. His son Anton reported the death and added 10 years to his father’s age.[23]

This must have been a family trait as Eva’s son Johann DIFFERDING reported that his mother Eva KREMER who died on 3 July 1867 in Gralingen was 80 years old when her true age was only 73.[24]

Wilhelm CREMERS later known as Wilhelm KREMER and Maria Magdalena VENANDI later known as Madelaine WINANDY were a challenge to research. I began with five known children and very few records and ended up with nine children and records to document nearly all important dates in the family’s life other than the births of Wilhelm ca. 1766 and Madelaine ca. 1772, my children’s 5th great-grandparents.


[1] Luxembourg, Registres d’état civil, 1662-1941 (images), FamilySearch (original records at Luxembourg National Archives, Plateau du Saint-Esprit, Luxembourg), Hosingen > Naissances 1798-1822 > image 7 of 395. 1798 Birth Record (22 Frimaire An 7). (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6L8S-GST?cc=1709358&wc=9RYZ-4W5%3A129905301%2C130379001 : accessed 15 April 2017).
[2] Ibid., Fouhren > Tables des mariages 1726-1797 (index organisée par l’époux) > image 43 of 198. 1793 Marriage Index Card. (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-99WS-SPY?cc=2037955&wc=STH8-DPR%3A1500942601%2C1501164506 : 9 January 2015).
[3] Ibid., Fouhren > Baptêmes, mariages, sépultures 1779-1793 > image 141 of 245. 1793 Marriage Record (right, last entry – continued on next image). (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-89WS-9QNT?cc=2037955&wc=STHZ-BZW%3A1500942601%2C1500913302 : 9 January 2015).
[4] Ibid., Putscheid > Naissances 1779-1831 > image 141 of 299. 1793 Baptismal Record. (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11541-110845-43?cc=1709358&wc=9RYM-4WL:130227001,130321101 : accessed 18 August 2015).
[5] Luxembourg, Registres d’état civil, 1662-1941 (images), FamilySearch (original records at Luxembourg National Archives, Plateau du Saint-Esprit, Luxembourg), Bettendorf > Mariages 1817-1890 Décès 1800-1859 > image 220 of 1494. 1830 Marriage Record No. 10. (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-12456-39950-62?cc=1709358&wc=M9M6-2ZY:2071013250 : accessed 07 Apr 2013).
[6] Ibid., Hosingen > Naissances 1798-1822 > image 55 of 395. 1801 Birth Record (9 Floreal year 9). (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6L8S-XZJ?cc=1709358&wc=9RYZ-4W5%3A129905301%2C130379001 : accessed 15 April 2017).
[7] Ibid., Hosingen > Mariages 1863-1890 Décès 1798-1876 > image 367 of 1487. 1803 Death Record (13 Pluviose 11). (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-DKRS-PGJ?cc=1709358&wc=9RYW-W38%3A129905301%2C130182001 : accesed 17 April 2017).
[8] Ibid., Hosingen > Naissances 1798-1822 > image 95 of 395. 1803 Birth Record (20 Brumaire an 12).(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6L8S-ZRH?cc=1709358&wc=9RYZ-4W5%3A129905301%2C130379001 : accessed 17 April 2017).
[9] Ibid., Bastendorf > Naissances 1800-1823, 1798-1823, 1828-1890 Mariages 1778-1823 > image 211 of 1476. 1806 Birth Record (right page, bottom). https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6277-MD6?cc=1709358&wc=9RYQ-MNL%3A129624201%2C129879301 : accessed 20 April 2017). Continued on next image.
[10] Ibid., Bettendorf > Mariages 1817-1890 Décès 1800-1859 > image 212 of 1494. 1830 Marriage Record No. 14. (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6RW9-FCD?cc=1709358&wc=9RY8-SP8%3A129626601%2C129729901 : accessed 13 Apr 2013).
[11] Ibid., Bastendorf > Naissances 1800-1823, 1798-1823, 1828-1890 Mariages 1778-1823 > image 247 of 1476. 1811 Birth Record No. 4. (bottom left, top right). https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-627Q-1J4?cc=1709358&wc=9RYQ-MNL%3A129624201%2C129879301 : accessed 20 April 2017).
[12] Ibid., Bastendorf > Décès 1798-1823 > image 81 of 143. 1811 Death Record No. 7. (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6PQC-HSK?cc=1709358&wc=9RYZ-827%3A129624201%2C129649901 : accessed 20 April 2017).
[13] Ibid., Bastendorf > Décès 1798-1823 > image 82 of 143. 1811 Death Record No. 14 (lower right, next image upper left). (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6PQC-F7Z?cc=1709358&wc=9RYZ-827%3A129624201%2C129649901 : accessed 20 April 2017).
[14] Ibid., Bastendorf > Naissances 1800-1823, 1798-1823, 1828-1890 Mariages 1778-1823 > image 265 of 1476. 1813 Birth Record No. 15. (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6277-9S6?cc=1709358&wc=9RYQ-MNL%3A129624201%2C129879301 : accessed 20 April 2017).
[15] Ibid., Bastendorf > Décès 1798-1823 > image 95 of 143. 1814 Death Record No. 1.  (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6PQC-FQQ?cc=1709358&wc=9RYZ-827%3A129624201%2C129649901 : accessed 20 April 2017).
[16] Ibid., Putscheid > Naissances 1839-1890 Mariages 1798-1890 Décès 1798-1858 > image 1143 of 1481. 1822 Death Record No. 2. (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-69G8-8Q?cc=1709358&wc=9RYH-K68%3A130227001%2C130423701 : accessed 18 April 2017),.
[17] Ibid., Bastendorf > Mariages 1800-1823 > image 184 of 196. 1822 Marriage Record No. 6. (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-12394-249592-40?cc=1709358&wc=M9M6-2CG:n1464610767 : accessed 13 Apr 2013).
[18] Ibid., Bettendorf > Mariages 1817-1890 Décès 1800-1859 > image 1095 of 1494. 1830 Death Record No. 12. (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-12456-38474-75?cc=1709358&wc=M9M6-2ZY:2071013250 : accessed 14 Apr 2013).
[19] Ibid., Bettendorf > Mariages 1817-1890 Décès 1800-1859 > image 269 of 1494. 1835 Marriage Record No. 9. (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-12456-40497-91?cc=1709358&wc=M9M6-2ZY:2071013250 : accessed 13 Apr 2013).
[20] Ibid., Bettendorf > Mariages 1817-1890 Décès 1800-1859 > image 1235 of 1494. 1840 Death Record No. 11. (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-12456-39485-62?cc=1709358&wc=9RY8-SP8:129626601,129729901 : accessed 22 March 2010).
[21] Ibid., Bettendorf > Mariages 1817-1890 Décès 1800-1859 > image 1346 of 1494. 1848 Death Record No. 40. ((https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-12456-41065-23?cc=1709358&wc=9RY8-SP8:129626601,129729901 : accessed 22 March 2010).
[22] Ibid., Bettendorf > Mariages 1817-1890 Décès 1800-1859 > image 1478 of 1494. 1859 Death Record No. 10. (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-12456-41053-41?cc=1709358&wc=9RY8-SP8:129626601,129729901 : accessed 21 March 2010).
[23] Ibid., Bettendorf > Décès 1860-1890 > image 118 of 465. 1867 Death Record No. 8. (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11711-67192-17?cc=1709358&wc=M9M6-2ZR:n1595569028 : accessed 07 Apr 2013).
[24] Ibid., Putscheid > Décès 1859-1890 > image 108 of 381. 1867 Death Record No. 17. (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11564-48433-11?cc=1709358&wc=M9M6-L84:n1201975605 : accessed 01 Mar 2013).

© 2017, copyright Cathy Meder-Dempsey. All rights reserved.