Old Photographs Saved From Trash Can ~ #90 Charlie LILLIE and his Mrs. (Part 2)

Last week I featured this photograph of an unidentified couple in Brookport, Massac County, Illinois.

mrin39470-1970s-charlie-lillie-with-wife
Charlie LILLIE with a woman I believe was his wife in the 1970s

I compared it to this photograph (below) in which Charlie was identified with his wife. I also included a link to the 2014 obituary online of the woman seen as Charles Newton LILLIE’s wife on his death record in 1984.

mrin39470-lillie-charlie-and-wife-cutout
Charlie Lillie and Mrs. cutout of group photo taken around September 1966.
What my readers thought…

Several of my readers noticed differences in the women. Amy thought Fannie May Sides Lillie’s smaller nose and more delicate features in the obituary photo did not match the women above. Vera also said the nose looked totally wrong as noses get bigger with age, not smaller.

Is it an old wives’ tale that a person’s nose and ears continue to grow? I checked around and learned it’s a misconception that cartilage continues to grow as you age. The skin of the nose and ears starts to sag making them more prominent while cheeks cave in a bit. It’s more of an optical illusion we can blame on gravity.

More help came from Joe…

My cousin Joe Rooney sent a genealogy source that couldn’t be ignored. His Mom’s address book. He didn’t send me the actual book but took the time to type up all the addresses for me. Charles & Evelyn Lillie had a P.O. box number in Dallas, North Carolina. This is the town Charlie was living in when he died in 1984. To keep this in perspective, Joe’s mother Ruby died in 1981 so the address is pre-1981.

Who was Evelyn?

We know Fannie May SIDES was the name of Charles Newton LILLIE’s wife from his 1984 death transcript from FamilySearch’s collection North Carolina Deaths, 1931-1994.

1984charlesnewtonlilliedeath
“North Carolina Deaths, 1931-1994,” database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FG42-CMT : accessed 14 February 2017), Charles Newton Lillie, 13 Dec 1984; citing Lincolnton, Lincoln, North Carolina, v 49A cn 49094, State Department of Archives and History, Raleigh; FHL microfilm 1,985,160.

Who was Evelyn seen in Ruby’s address book?

On Ancestry I found a marriage in the Kentucky, Marriage Index, 1973-1999 collection.  Evelyn P. HILL married Charles N. LILLIE on 26 October 1974 in McCracken County, Kentucky. The bride was 60 and the groom 65. Both had been previously married and the marriages had ended with the death of a spouse. The number of previous marriages was not included.

I searched North Carolina Deaths, 1931-1994 for a death record for Evelyn and found she died on 8 June 1980. Her home address was the same as Charles’ in the 1984 death record at right. Her maiden name was PIERCE.

Evelyn and Charles were married from 1974 until her death in 1980. Charles married again, before his own death in 1984, to Fannie May SIDES.

The featured photo at top must be Charles Newton LILLIE (1908-1984) and Evelyn Loraine PIERCE (1914-1980).

How many times was Charles actually married?

I’m figuring at least four times as I found an early marriage for him in 1933 in Sikeston, Scott County, Missouri. I am confident this is Charles as he was living in Sikeston with his mother Geneva and his sisters Emma Roxie and Alberta Editha at the time of the 1930 census. Charles married Muriel Hurt on 1 July 1933. Although both were from Scott County, they obtained the license in Mississippi County and were married the same day by a Baptist minister in Sikeston.

I couldn’t find either of them in the 1940 census. Charles’ mother Geneva was in Detroit with her oldest married daughter.

On Missouri Digital Heritage I found a single young girl named Muriel Hurt born in 1915 and died in 1937. Was this the same girl who married Charles? Did the marriage not last? The marriage license was signed and returned but the names of their parents were not included.

Who was Mrs. Charles Lillie in 1966?

This leaves me with a void between 1933 and 1974 filled only by Mrs. Charles LILLIE seen in the photo from 1966. Was she the only unknown Mrs. Lillie? I’m beginning to think a newspaper subscription might be helpful.

Until next week, when I’ll be sharing a series of brick wall photographs.

bestwishescathy1

More about this collection, how it came to be in my possession,
and links to previous posts in the series can be found here.

Please contact me!
Are you related to a person mentioned in this post? Send an email to
openingdoorsinbrickwalls @ pt.lu or message me on my Facebook page
Opening Doors in Brick Walls.

© 2017, copyright Cathy Meder-Dempsey. All rights reserved.

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Old Photographs Saved From Trash Can ~ #90 Charlie LILLIE and his Mrs.

There were only three color photographs in this collection. Two of them were from the 1970s and shared in Old Photographs Saved From Trash Can ~ #73 Ruth Joanna LILLIE, Part 2.

The last of the three is of an unidentified couple in Brookport, Massac County, Illinois. The location was recognized by my cousin Joe Rooney when he labeled it years ago.

mrin39470-1970s-charlie-lillie-with-wife

The man’s plaid jacket and turtleneck, the woman’s blouse with long pointed collar and button up vest, and their glasses – these point to the 1970s. In the background at the left, behind the man, is a light colored car with a black top. Very little can be seen of it but I believe it’s the same car as in the post mentioned above. [See the photo of Ruth Lillie in front of her car at her home in Brookport, Massac County, Illinois.]

mrin39470-lillie-charlie-and-wife-cutout
Cutout of group photo taken around September 1966.

Cousin Joe shared photos from his private collection of family photos with me when he saw my interest in the old photographs. Joe’s mother Ruby was Ruth’s sister. In the private collection I found a group photo of six. In the group were a man and woman I believe are the couple in the first photo. (see cutout above)

Look at the way the man holds the woman in both photos. How the woman’s shoulder fits in under the man’s arm. Compare the man’s nose and smile. He is wearing glasses in one and has glasses in breast pocket in the other. I think, at least, the man is the same in both pictures.

Who were they? This is the group photo taken in 1966.

mrin39470-lillieroxieraymondrubyruthcharlieandwife
Group photo from Joe Rooney’s private collection.

It was labeled on the back with the following names.

mrin39470-lillieroxieraymondrubyruthcharlieandwifeback
Back of group photo from Joe Rooney’s private collection.

Who were all these LILLIEs? Raymond b. 1904, Ruby b. 1909, and Ruth b. 1907 were siblings and children of Florence ROYALTY (1868-1946) and Isaac Spencer “Ike” LILLIE (1872-1932)

Roxie b. 1905 and Charlie b. 1908 were also siblings and the same age as Raymond, Ruby, and Ruth. Ike’s father Albert Spencer LILLIE (1848-1913) remarried after the death of his wife Pernecia Elizabeth GLASS (1852-1899) and had three children with his second wife Geneva Elyse MASON.

I was confident with the man in the top photograph being Charlie LILLIE because he, along with his sisters, were mentioned (without names) in the 1966 obituary of Ike’s brother John Calvin “Jack” LILLIE (1883-1966). Jack was the last living child of Albert and Pernecia.

My 52 Ancestors: #14 Albert Spencer LILLIE (1848-1913) ~ Old Photographs Saved From Trash Can was the very first in what became this series. I mentioned Albert’s marriage to Geneva MASON but did not include the fact that she gave him three more children making him the father of fourteen. Since there were no known photos of his children from his second marriage in this collection, I did not bother to research them in-depth. Their children were Emma Roxie, Charlie, and Alberta Editha.

Was his son Charlie married? Could this be his wife? No name was given for her on the back of the group photo so I had to go back to the beginning. Check census records from birth until 1940. Search for possible marriage records. Check for a death record.

I found a death record for Charles Newton LILLIE who died in 1984 in North Carolina on Ancestry.com in the North Carolina, Death Indexes, 1908-2004 collection. The abstracted information (there was no image) was not enough to confirm it was the same man. FamilySearch had more abstracted information in their collection North Carolina Deaths, 1931-1994.

1984charlesnewtonlilliedeath
“North Carolina Deaths, 1931-1994,” database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FG42-CMT : accessed 14 February 2017), Charles Newton Lillie, 13 Dec 1984; citing Lincolnton, Lincoln, North Carolina, v 49A cn 49094, State Department of Archives and History, Raleigh; FHL microfilm 1,985,160.

County and state of birth and the parents names (although off a bit) are a match. Most important, the name of his wife was included.

I finally found an obituary online for his widow. Fannie May Sides LILLIE died on 28 July 2014 at CaroMont Regional Medical Center, Gastonia. I have not found a marriage record and her husband was not mentioned in the obituary. However, per the U.S. Public Records Index, 1950-1993, in the early 1990s she lived at the address found on Charles’ NC death record.

I would have liked to include the photo from her online obituary for comparison in this post but without permission I ask you to click on the link to see it. Does she look like either or both of the women in the photos above?

Charles Newton LILLIE (1908-1984) and Fannie May SIDES (1928-2014) are the names I would like to add to the top photo from the 1970s. Would you agree with me?

bestwishescathy1

More about this collection, how it came to be in my possession,
and links to previous posts in the series can be found here.

Please contact me!
Are you related to a person mentioned in this post? Send an email to
openingdoorsinbrickwalls @ pt.lu or message me on my Facebook page
Opening Doors in Brick Walls.

© 2017, copyright Cathy Meder-Dempsey. All rights reserved.

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